Rein escribió:But do not suggest that Argentinean philately is on an isolated island.... Everyone needs a learning curve, so I did. I am concerned with printing and paper technology for over 30 years now, with enough experience with stamps all over the world to get a grip on what was/is going in Argentina studying for not even a year!
Nobody doubts about your knowledge and experience in printing and paper technology. That was never a point on the debate.
Philatelists all over the world like one-liners, the use a term in a specific context not realising that the same phenomenon could have [or rather should have] applied that same term. Or that the term was only valid in a certain context.
Of course that Argentina, in terms of philately, is not an isolated island. The point is actually, not specific or unique to Argentina. The point is that the philately of each country use terms, sometimes in an unique and slightly different context.
Let consider the issue of color shades, which I think it might be easier to see what I am talking about. As in most other countries, some stamps have shade varieties that are rare and expensive. This includes, e.g. a few stamps so called "Indigo". When a stamp is blue, when is dark blue, and when is Indigo? Many years ago I asked why not to use some physical, scientific methods to determine the shade. I was told, and I learnt, that (at least from the philately point of view) "Indigo" has no precise, exact, universal meaning. Furthermore, the "Indigo" of some specific stamp of Argentina, might be a very different shade than the "Indigo" of some other stamp of Agentina.
So even top philatelic experts on the world, might be unable to judge about what Argentina considers an "Indigo", and what it considers a "dark blue". It is only
after they have seen both shades of
that specific stamp, and they were told about them, that they could know. That was my point, that was the "learning curve" I was talking about.
So Argentina philately doesn't live in isolation, I agree. It doesn't matter. It still, manytimes, defined terms in a sense slightly different than used in other countries. Furthermore, sometimes a term could mean different things when applied to different stamps of the same country. As you say yourself, "rayado" here is different than the "rayado" of the XIX stamps.
Kneitschel [1961] used the term "sobre papel rayado" for the JSM - the 1892 Próceres have "papel de Zárate, liso o ligeramente rayado" - and does not know the 1957 stamps! The same goes more or less for Klass (1970) although he does not see the "rayado" in the 1892 Próceres!
In first place, the fact that they don't mention something, or the fact that they don't catalog something, doesn't mean they don't see it. In second place, that is exactly my point. For the Agentinian philately, "papel rayado" might mean different things depending if you are talking about this or that stamp.
Btw, I would recommend you to get the Kneitschel 1974. You sometimes commented on Kneitschel mistakes, that were corrected in later editions.
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Translation/Traduccion
Nadie duda de tus conocimientos acerca de papeles y metodos de impresion. Eso nunca estuvo en discusion.
Por supuesto que la filatelia argentina no es una isla aislada. Pero el punto al que me refiero no es unico o especifico de Argentina. El punto es que la filatelia de cada pais ha usado terminos, muchas veces con un significado y en un contexto distinto.
Consideremos el tema de matices de colores. Porque me parece que asi es mas facil de entender a lo que me refiero. Casi todos los paises tienen estampillas con variedaded de matices que son raras y caras. Nosotros tenemos, por ejemplo, algunos sellos con variedades asi llamadas "Indigo". Cuando un sello es azul, cuando azul oscuro, y cuando Indigo? Recuerdo que hace mucho tiempo yo pregunte, por que no usar un metodo fisico, o cientifico, para determinar el matiz. Lo que me contestaron, y lo que aprendi desde entonces, es que Indigo no tiene un significado exacto, preciso y universal (por lo menos, en lo que a filatelia se refiere). Y lo que es peor, el Indigo de un sello argentino especifico, puede ser bastante distinto al Indigo de otro sello tambien argentino.
Por lo tanto, inclusive un gran experto de otro pais, puede no ser capaz de determinar que es lo que Argentina llama Indigo, y que llama azul oscuro. Solamente despues de ver los dos matices
en ese sello especifico, y con los matices anotados, es que puede saber "de que estamos hablando". A esto es a lo que yo me referia.
Asi que Argentina no es una isla aislada. No importa. Aun asi, muchas veces se usaron terminos con un significado distinto al de otros paises. Inclusive adentro de la filatelia argentina, el mismo termino puede tener un significado distinto dependiendo de a que sello nos estamos refiriendo. Como tu mismo dices, el termino "rayado" es muy distinto si nos referimos, por ejemplo, a sellos del siglo XIX.
They keep information away from us! And they do not always [or hardly ever] reflect the knowledge available in the philatelic community. BUT they force us to use terms that are inconsistent what should not be!
