CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Long grooves at the back!

Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Long grooves at the back!

Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Long grooves at the back!

Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Rein escribió:In the context of this thread!

Why is the first mate importado the German paper of 1896?????

We have an English paper with watermark "RA" here!!!

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Imagen

What about all the other stamp papers used before 1892????

to be continued ....
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Imagen

And even a good look at the RA at the front!

Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

The 03.02.2012 Version brings some great surprises!

The 1924 JSM sin punto is one of them, although provisional tables had been circulating for quite some time....

But also the list of types of paper got longer and longer!


The semi-pregnant types still needs some 49 additions:

ENCAPADO NACIONAL (Total 64 papeles)
(01) Semi-Encapado Nacional, rayado paralelo, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. FN Combate de San Lorenzo - 1963
(02) Semi-Encapado Nacional, gran. perp. y ray. paral, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Ffo Día del Ejército - 1966
(03) Semi-Encapado Nacional, trama invisible, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Ff Ulrico Schmidl - 1969
(04) Semi-Encapado Celulosa, rayado paralelo al frente, Filig.: Casa de Moneda. Ff Día del Ejército - 1969
(06) Semi-Encapado Witcell, trama invisible, Filig.: Casa de Moneda. FN Puente Paysandú-Colón - 1975
(07) Encapado Witcell, trama invisible, Filig.: Casa de Moneda. FN
(09) Semi-Encapado Celulosa, rayado paralelo al lado mayor/menor al frente, s/Fil. FN
(10) Semi-Encapado Celulosa, trama invisible, s/Filig. pN Y.P.F - 1972
(11) Semi-Encapado Witcell, rayado paralelo al lado mayor/menor al dorso, s/Filig. FN Pesca Deportiva - 1974
(12) Semi-Encapado Witcell, rayado paralelo al lado mayor/menor al dorso, s/Filig. pN Belisario Roldán - 1974
(13) Semi-Encapado Witcell, trama invisible y/o rayado a trasluz, s/Filig. FF Día del Ejército - 1976
(14) Semi-Encapado Witcell, rayado paralelo al lado mayor/menor al dorso, s/Filig. pN Conferencia sobre el agua - 1977
(15) Semi-Encapado Mate Witcell, rayado paralelo al lado mayor/menor al dorso, s/Filig. FCorreo del Uruguay - 1977

Missing here is type (08)! And strange enough there is no reference stamp for (07)!? (06) is semi-encapado whilst (07) is encapado! is this a question of a few months waiting :)

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

The catalogue listings provide us with some extra information:

SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (06) Filigrana : Casa de Moneda. Escudo ovalado y bien visible
Trama invisible, mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FN.

SEMI-ENCAPADO ALEMAN. (07)
Granulado perpendicular y Rayado paralelo al lado mayor, entre ellos forman una cuadrícula inclinada. Fosforescente. pN. (Fosforescencia débil o apagada)

SEMI-ENCAPADO CELULOSA. S-E. C. (09) Sin Filigrana.
Rayado paralelo al lado mayor, visto al frente.
Delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante.

SEMI-ENCAPADO CELULOSA. S-E. C. (10) Sin Filigrana.
Trama invisible, delgado, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fosforescente. pN. (Fosforescencia débil o apagada)

SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (11)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor.
Delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FN.

SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (12) Sin Filigrana.
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor.
Delgado traslúcido y aspecto brillante. Fosforescente. pN. (Fosforescencia débil o apagada)

SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (13)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado menor, visto a trasluz.
Delgado y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.

SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (14) Sin Filigrana.
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado menor, poco visible. Fosforescente. pN. Goma : Semi-brillante, color ambar.

SEMI-ENCAPADO MATE. S-E. M. (15) Sin Filigrana.
Rayado paralelo al lado mayor, visto al dorso.
Mediano, poroso y aspecto sin brillo. Fluorescente. FN. Goma : Semi-brillante, color ambar

Semi-encapado (07) is GERMAN here, not WITCELL! And from (14) onwards the gum has changed! Worth mentioning!

to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

In the thread "Print-spoiling paper in the 1975-1980 period"

viewtopic.php?f=137&t=7091

I introduced two types of paper of a terrible quality!

One was the S-E (15)! The other one - the chipwood got overlooked by CEFILOZA!

viewtopic.php?f=137&t=7091&start=8
In the second half of 1975 a new type of paper got introduced - I call it chipwood surface - as it reminds you of chipwood board with the chips crossing each other irregularly!

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I think it is obvious that with this type of surface of the stamp paper, the quality of the result cannot be that good!!!

Bear in mind that this type of paper - no matter whether Dario Bardi or Carlos Raul Gomez have assigned it a separate type of paper ! - is still considered a "tizado". It has a coating AND it is glossy! This in stark contrast with the paper I mentioned for the Postal Surfaces which is also coated [!!!!] but has no gloss whatsoever! Argentina Philately calls it "mate" while other printings of the same stamps are called "tizado"!
to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Or maybe It wasn't overlooked???

Among the few commemorative stamps with Chipwood are the 6p Malvinas and the 10p and 20p Nobelists!

For both series we have TWO different descriptions of the SEN (13)!!! Either the paper wire is invisble [trama invisible] or you can see it faintly [ligero rayado].... Or even we have SEN (11) but that is supposed to have a different UV reaction of the back!

In our case of the Nobelists the 10p does not occur with SEN (11) which leaves our Chipwood among the SEN (13) !?!?

1976.- Abril 24. Islas Malvinas y Fragata Heroína:
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (13) Sin Filigrana.
Trama invisible, delgado, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (13)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado menor, visto a trasluz.
Delgado y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (11)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor.
Delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillant. Fluorescente. FN.


1976.- Agosto 14. Premios Nóbel Argentinos
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (13) Sin Filigrana.
Trama invisible, delgado, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (13)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado menor, visto a trasluz.
Delgado y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (11)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor.
Delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillant. Fluorescente. FN.

Does the SEN (13) need to be split up??? So far in Gz are only these 2 sets!

to be continued .....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

SEN (07) only occurs next to SEN (10), but for one case?! Let's compare the two!

SEMI-ENCAPADO ALEMAN. (07)
Granulado perpendicular y Rayado paralelo al lado mayor, entre ellos forman una cuadrícula inclinada. Fosforescente. pN. (Fosforescencia débil o apagada)

SEMI-ENCAPADO CELULOSA. S-E. C. (10) Sin Filigrana.
Trama invisible, delgado, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fosforescente. pN. (Fosforescencia débil o apagada)

Both are phosphorescent! But where the SEN (07) can be found we also see a normal asymmetrical paper wire quite visible form the back of the stamp! NO TRACE of granulado! The description itself point to a parallelogram (cuadricula inclinada) and not a rhomb! Once more a sign of paper making not quite understood!

We can ask ourselves if the visibility of the paper wire is not so important in the case of the SEN (13) - see above posting - than why assign TWO different numbers??? Or why NOT assigning two different numbers in the case if SEN (13)??????

to be continued ....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

The one case when we have both SEN (07) and SEN (14):

1977.- Julio 16. Filatelia Argentina.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (14) Sin Filigrana.
Trama invisible, mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fosforescente. pN.
SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. S-E. W. (14)
Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor, poco visible. Mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante Fosforescente. pN.

ENCAPADO WITCELL. E. W. (07). Filigrana : Casa de Moneda. Escudo ovalado y bien visible.
Trama invisible, mediano a grueso, compacto y aspecto muy brillante. Fluorescente. FN.

It turns out to be something completely different with a watermark CdM and fluorescent.....

Or is this the point where we missed the SEN (08) ?????

to be continued ....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

This list seems to be complete!!!

MATE NACIONAL (Total 8 papeles)
(01) Mate Zárate, rayado paralelo, Filig.: Sol Chico 5,5x6,5 mm. Descubrimiento de América
(02) Mate Nacional, granulado paralelo al lado mayor/menor, Sin Filig. Fallec. de Roosevelt - 1946
(03) Zárate Rayado Paralelo '53, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Bolsa de Comercio - 1954
(04) Zárate Granulado Perpendicular '53, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Poliomielitis - 1956
(05) Zárate Granulado Perpendicular '54, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Día de la Armada - 1963
(06) Zárate Granulado Paralelo '57, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm.
(07) Zárate Granulado Perpendicular '57, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. J. M. de Pueyrredón
(08) Zárate Combinado, Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm. Folklore - 1964

But as I pointed out in the comments on the new P&R II book! viewtopic.php?f=137&t=7286&start=5
It can get even worse!


The 20c Llama with S.O. on TCM paper does not exist!!!



And it was the only one mentioned as such in the Table!

Clear enough we need a NEW category: ZCM

that is uncoated Zárate paper with the Casa de Moneda watermark!

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-----------------
to be continued .....

Why not include this in the Introduction immediately....!? :)


to be continued ...
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

What are the criteria with which Gomez is splitting up the national coated papers????

He promises us to have to have a total of "64 papeles"!

The obvious first category is the one with the watermark " Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm":

Three types of paper are in this group!

(01) rayado paralelo - FN Fluorescente al frente y neutro al dorso.
(02) granulado perpendicular y rayado paralel - Ffo Fluorescente al frente y fluorescente débil y oscuro al dorso.
(03) trama invisible - Ff Fluorescente al frente y fluorescente débil al dorso.

What does it imply? The way the paper wire got visible or the symmetry??? And what does the UV-reaction tell us???? In fact, apart from the non-differences in watermark we have 4 criteria:

- wire - symmetry or not
- wire - visible or not
- front [i.e. coating] is fluorescent [or not?]
- back is fluorescent or not??

to be continued ....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

The second group is the one with the watermark "Casa de Moneda"!

Again three types of which (07) is not clear [see previous postings]

(04) Semi-Encapado Celulosa, rayado paralelo al frente, Ff
(06) Semi-Encapado Witcell, trama invisible, FN
(07) Encapado Witcell, trama invisible, FN

What happened to (05)????

Apart from the 4 criteria we had already!

- wire - symmetry or not
- wire - visible or not
- front [i.e. coating] is fluorescent [or not?]
- back is fluorescent or not??

Gomez introduces 2 new ones!
- The name of the paper mill - Witcell or Celulosa? Thuis is not a criterium but just an additional information that does not help us recognizing the types of paper!
- whether felt side or the wire side of the paper had been printed!

You can imagine how happy I am to find someone that just like me is paying attention to that aspect!! I am just not sure whether Gomez does realize that it is a matter of felt side or wire side?! What he describes as "rayado al frente" is pointing to the wire side - with wire structure visible - being used for printing!!!! Although the coating could hide from us most negative aspects of the wire side, the structure itself was still visible! At least sometimes!!!!

to be continued ....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

The next two groups are mingled! And had better be unmingled....

All are without watermark - sin filigrana!

No phosphorescence:

all have some signs of asymmetrical wire [rayado], all are somewhat thin [delgado] and have a shiny surface!

(09) SEMI-ENCAPADO CELULOSA, rayado paralelo al lado mayor, visto al frente, delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante. FN
(11) SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL. Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado mayor al dorso, delgado a mediano, compacto y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FN.
(13) SEMI-ENCAPADO WITCELL, Ligero Rayado paralelo al lado menor, visto a trasluz. Delgado y aspecto brillante. Fluorescente. FF.

The names of the paper mill are not really relevant!

What is the real difference between (9) and (11)???? (9) had the wire side printed (visto al frente) and (11) the felt side (al dorso)!!!!!

(13) has a fluorescent back! And is probably the chipwood!

to be continued ....
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Re: CEFILOZA - Catálogo Gz

Mensaje por Rein »

Despite my critical remarks about the these semi-encapados I must publicly state here that the way these papers have been observed and described deserves a well-earned applause!

I wish the earlier period of - let's say - 1908-1926 will get a perfect treatment just as well since most criteria used here are bound to raise quite some discoveries in the 1908-1926 period!!

to be continued ....
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