P&R I 20c Large Format Cattle

[rubiera]

I have noticed two interesting varieties in in the background color. In the large block I have previously shown, I find one stamp with the background more displaced than the stamp left of it.



In one of the 1E3 specimens, I find a curious background printing flaw on the outside edge.





Have you seen these varieties or similar ones in your collections?

[rubiera]

This stamp is much more complicated than I imagined. Now that I have looked at a reasonable number of these, I find the following printings:

Medium color, first watermark, 1E3, flat paper, from 1942, vertical watermark in both directions





Medium color, second watermark diffuse, 2D, white flat paper, from 1943?, horizontal watermark





Another one on thicker paper, poorly perfed





Vivid colors, second watermark-straigh rays, 2C, white rough paper, 1949, horizontal





Vivid colors, second watermark-straigh rays, 2C, white rough paper, 1949, vertical





Dark colors, first watermark on the first late paper, 1L1, from 1951, vertical in both directions





Dark colors, first watermark on the first late paper, 1L1, from 1951, vertical in both directions, worn printing





Light colors, looks like straight rays, but is first watermark on the first late paper, 1L1, from 1951, vertical in both directions





Here are links to additional specimens-I doubt I got all the varieties.

http://somestamps.com/domain-argentina/ ... -037-1.htm

http://somestamps.com/domain-argentina/ ... -037-2.htm

http://somestamps.com/domain-argentina/ ... -037-3.htm

http://somestamps.com/domain-argentina/ ... -037-4.htm

http://somestamps.com/domain-argentina/ ... -037-5.htm

[rubiera]

This stamp has several majore plate varieties. The most common has a small scratch in the lower left numeral. It is common enough for me to posit that this plate variety is in one of the master dies, and should be found more than once on the plate(s).





This second plate variety is also common and has a dot in the oval. It is a candidate for showing up more than once on the plate(s).





This one has some ink below the E of REPUBLICA. It is very rare, therefore likely not repeating.

[rubiera]

The small number of major varieties and the larger number of minor ones points to no more than two plates used.

For this one I only have one specimen:



For this one I have two or three specimens:





For this one I have two or three specimens:

[rubiera]

This is an image from somestamps I retired and have not gotten around to add elsewhere on the site.

[Rein]

20cLC plates printed in wrong order

The first specimen, 1E3, has normal order and is shown here for reference.







The two specimens below have the background plate printed over the foreground plate. Both are NGR.







If you look carefully at the D and the E of GANADERIA the background lines are clearly visible.

[Rein]

20cLC2C plate variety for left numeral

This plate variety consists of a small in line within the inner lines of the 2 of 20 in the lower left numeral box. I have yet to determine if this is a variety that is found more than once on the plate. Here are three specimens. All are 2C.

[Rein]

20cLC2C plate variety 'break on bull's nose'

This plate variety consists of a small line break along the edge of the bull's nose. It is uncommon in general, and since both stamps I find are NGR, it may be a late error.

[Rein]

20cLC additional plate varieties


This is a 20cLC1E3. I may have shown this plate variety before or have at least seen it before. The last A of GANADERIA is slightly elongated.





This is a 20cLCNGR. This stamp has a few dots and ink blots.







This is a 20cLC1L1. This stamp shows plate assembly lines along the left edge.

[Rein]

Hola

Los dos medallones que aparecen impresos en la esquina superior izquierda de los pliegos del Toro grande (20 cts), siempre han sido muy populares entre los filatelistas y las parejas de sello+medallón suelen alcanzar precios elevados.


Toro.med.20c.jpg (43.7 KiB) Viewed 7 times

¿Cuál es la razón de haber impreso estos medallones en 2 espacios del pliego y no haber aprovechado de incluír en ellos 2 sellos, que mal que mal, es lo que a correos le genera ingresos?

Saludos


Jorge,

Jorge,

Victor Kneitschel [1958 vol 1, pages 404-405] refers to the size of the sheets - both for the 20c Toro [20.08.1942] and the J.M. Estrada [13.07.1942]:

Estrada:

Impreso en hojas de 150 sellos, distribuidos en 152 casillas: 8 hileras horizontales de 19, llevando los Nos 1 y 20 el medaillón.

Toro:

La mayoria de los Nos 580 y 582 fué impresa en hojas de 100 sellos. Una cantidad limitada se imprimío en hojas de 150 sellos distribuidos en 152 casillas: 18 hileras horizontales de 19, llevando las casillas 1 y 20 el medaillón.

Why should the Casa de Moneda have done such thing???

Instead of sheets of 200 print only those of 150??? They needed to use up a pile of smaller printing sheets and hence had to reduce the sheet size. It can also [?] explain the use of papel Holandés for the 20c!

[Rein]

Kneitschel made a typo here....

But following Sergio:

Hola queria abrir este post para empecza a mostrarles las variedades que tengo que no estan catalogadas y que pude comprobar que se repiten más de una vez.

MT 420b



MT420b (Variedad con Raya en REPU)



*** SARCOSIS ***

8 [not 18 VK] * 19 = 152 so we have 2 empty positions!

No 1 is the first stamp of the 1st row, no 20 is the first stamp of the second row [we have rows 19 stamps long!]

The illustrations make it more clear! Thanks to Sergio and Jorge!

Kneitschel refers only to a flaw in stamp 21 of plate 2B. The "T"and the "I" of "Argentina" are joined!

[Rein]

The 20c Toro in grey-blue will give us some problems!



The orthogonal watermarks in the case of the 20c Toro occur in 3 places in this part of the table. Both Granulado vertical, RR difuso and RR nitido have "m" in the Tabla-General - that is the line of AЯ will be parallel to the short side of the stamp (D.A. Bardi's notation!). What are the differences that we can recognize????

A conditio sine qua non for the Difuso version is the symmetrical paper wire! But the Granulado vertical has that also!

Let's scan the consecutive stamps and look at potential differences!

Difuso:

[Rein]

Contrasting the difuso and the nitido!


Difuso:




Nitido:






The orthogonal watermark with a-symmetrical paper wire and the direction of paper parallel to the long side of rthe stamp "M":





The orthogonal watermark with a-symmetrical paper wire and the direction of paper parallel to the short side of rthe stamp "m":

[Rein]

Have look at the 2 copies of the Nitido; both have the orthogonal watermark with a-symmetrical paper wire and the direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":








or compare the 2 stamps side by side:



The vertical distance between the Suns is different in both stamps: 1.8mm at the left and 1.6mm at the right, giving an inpression of an equilateral triangle [lines joining the hearts of the suns are all equally long] at the right, whereas at the left the horizontal line of the triangle is a lot shorter hence a isosceles triangle. In all cases the horizontal lines joining the suns are not straight! So no "rectos"....

What both stamps have in common is the rough, felted surface both in the front and in the back! That is what - apart from the a-symmetrical paper wire - makes this paper to be the so-called Rayos Rectos Nitidos! Not the presumed straight rays, whatever the collectors may have thought they saw 61 years ago...

[Rein]

Tela: parallel watermark, symmetrical paper wire, gauge 24/20 threads per cm horizontal/vertical, direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":





The blue lines indicate the symmetrical paper mesh, the red line shows somewhat torsion that should not be cojnfused with the "rayado" of the asymmetrical paper mesh.