Foro de Filatelia Argentina

rubiera escribió:1E4 small format values for the Beginner's Collection

Some of the 'cents' values were printed on this paper in 1940. Interestingly, the 2 1/2 c stamp, which received almost no postal use, is found on this paper as well as the 1E3 paper!

Tony,

the small values with 1E4 are most likely mentioned by Dario Bardi in his 2008 Survey [Tabla General de la Serie] under Granulado vertical. The other orthogonal watermark in that period would have been 1E2 or "austriaco" !

Apart from the values you showed [2c, 2 1/2c, 3c grey, 12c] he mentions the 1c Sarmiento [both M/m], 4c Brown in green [M], the 10c type IV [M], the 15c Ganadria [both M/m], the 15c Guemes [M] and the 20c Guemes [M]. M meaning that the direction of paper is horizontal and the line of AЯ vertical [along the longer side], m meaning the direction of paper is vertical and the line of AЯ is horizontal [along the shorter side].

2c Urquiza:





2c Urquiza with S.O.:





3c JSM grey:





2c JSM grey with S.O.:





to be continued

All stamps have a horizontal direction of paper!

4c Brown in green





12c Mitre in red:





to be continued....

Como menciona Luis, los mallados del 45 (NGR) o los vez o no los vez, por que el mallado es bien obvio con o sin goma. A mi este sello se me parece al Zarate, el cual practicamente no se le ve la filigrana aunque le pertenece. Hasta el dia de hoy yo no he podido encontrar un solo Zarate con la filigrana suficientemente visible para medir dimensiones!

saludos

tony

The 30c Departmentals I have are either 1E1 or 1E2:






















to be continued....

Or 1E2:









to be continued....

The 25c I have are all 1E2:









to be continued....

I do have some 50c though, and they are all with a paper type I had not expected!

The 50c I have are all 1E3c i.e. D.A. Bardi's "Tela" or the 24/20 density of a symmetrical paper wire in combination with a parallel watermark. This type of paper was first noticed in February 1941! Could it be that the overprints are forged????:









to be continued....

Rein:

I am surprised to see these 50c Departmentals. There is no way that they can be 1E3 because the 1E3 paper came several years after these stamps were printed (in 1936). We may be looking at forgeries. The M.G. overprint is not consistent with the specimens I have...

Me sorprenden estos Ministeriales de 50c. No hay manera que sean 1E3 porque este papel fue usado de 1939 en adelante y estos sellos fueron emitidos en 1936. Quizas tengamos a mano falsificaciones de la sobrecarga, especialmente en el caso del M.G.

I have always found overprints to be a very tricky field. They attract forgerers and collectors get easily deceived. It may not be the amount of money involved for a single forged stamp; 500 copies of a relatively scarce item sold to collectors who will get the illusion to have a complete collection will also pay off....

A unwritten rule in philately used to be not to describe nor publish in detail a particular overprint - real of fake - in order to prevent further forgeries. That may have been practical 75 years ago when typographical printing was still around, but nowadays any forgerer will try modern methods to produce their products and these should get recognised more easily

The Overprints are in 2 groups since 1913: no serif <-> with serif; however in the no serif group I see another division of circle points <=> square points. Whereas the serif/no serif division found its way into the catalogues, I do not see any reference to the circled vs squared points in the catalogues....

For the PyR only the overprints with serifs are relevant and all points are circles, .. at least....?

Just to make clear:

"no serif" is what is called "bastón" in local catalogues. "with serif" is what is called "perfiladas".
I have never seen a PyR with no serif overprint, I understand the were replaced by serif (perfiladas) in the previous definitive series (San Martín sin punto)

Zakur is right!

The overprints without serifs should be dealt with in the San Martin section....

Just a few examples of the Próceres on the first paper - parallel watermark, symmetrical paper wire, direction of paper vertical ("M") - in Antonio Rubiera"s terms: 1E1.

The 1c DF Sarmiento:

MA:





MRC:

The 2c JJ de Urquiza:

MA:






MI:






MRC:







Note the tiny dot on top of the left vertical line of the "U"! It occurs on all stamps since 1935 until ....????

The 5c Mariano Moreno:

MA, base stamp in offset-litho:







MH, base stamp in typography:








MI, base stamp in typography:







MRC, base stamp in offset-litho:

The 10c Bernardino Rivadavia, type II:

MA, base stamp in typography:

Comparacion de los papeles 1E4 y 2D



Los dos 1E4 son valores de 5 pesos, y los dos 2D son Toro formato grande (20cLC).

Aqui estan los dos 20cLC2D