Retoques, errores y variedades de Proceres y Riquezas

[Rein]

The 25c also has a few characteristics that may be occuring only once per sheet I assume:

[Rein]

Nestor, Rein

It is true that I always refer to plate varieties, but it is true that we have two types of plate varieties:

1. Master die varieties that are a special, repetitive type of plate variety.
2. plate varieties that are not repetitive in the sheet, and occur in the plate after it has been made.

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Es verdad que siempre me refiero a variedades de plancha, pero es verdad que tenemos dos tipos:

1. Variedades de plancha proveniented del cliche patron, o maestro, las cuales son variedades de plancha especiales, y se encuentran repetidas en la plancha.
2. variedades de plancha (no repetitivas, que ocurren en la plancha despues de que ha sido confeccionada.

saludos

tony

Tony,

when discussing the (photographically reproduced) offset-litho stamps of the PyR I issue I suggest we have 3 types of "plate characteristics":

- 1st occuring in every single stamp of the (printers) sheet i.e. it was present in the original photograph or got there when reducing the size to that of a stamp;
- 2nd occuring in a base block [of 10=2x5?] i.e. it originates from the reproductive steps needed to come from the original to the base block. From there on - by reproducing the base block as many times as necessary to form a complete printers sheet - it will be seen some 10 times or more on a sheet of 10x10.
- 3rd occuring only once in a printers sheet as the result of a "damage" of the plate.

I am using the term plate here, but it may as well be a curved plate around a cylinder or a cylinder itself.

I would only use the term "plate flaw" for the 3rd type of characteristic IF we can establish its occurance.

In my following examnple of the 1peso no-borders I will make it acceptable that all characteristics shown are of the 2nd type apart from the one (the dot underneath the I' ) that is of the 1st type.

[Rein]

The 1 peso sin limites has a plate change [for the dark brown colour] that must have been made around 1945. The examples I have all come from the unwatermarked Servicio Oficial stamps of which I have some 80 copies.

Out of which 8 have the following 2 characteristics:



To have 8 out of 80 is not possible statistically when we should deal with a 3rd type of plate characteristics! So I am sure that the two characteristics occur on alternate horizontal rows....

There are some other characteristics that occur also more than once is my modest collection:

[Rein]

I started to look better as these stamps when I had noticed the blue hook in the top left corner

[Rein]

[Rein]

[rubiera]

Rein,

The work you are doing on the 1pNGR-SO complements well the work Luis did from a complete sheet the 1 peso no boundaries 'Servicio Oficial' he examined in this thread:

Este trabajo sobre el 1pNGR-SO es un buen complemento a la labor de Luis basada en una hoja completa que el estudio en este hilo:

http://www.filateliaargentina.com.ar/fo ... f=43&t=740

[rubiera]

Rein,

Back to the classification of plate varieties:

I have not come across any plate varieties that are found in every single stamp of the sheet. Such a variety could only be distinguished if there was more than one plate and the difference was found from one plate to another. To me this type of plate variety is really a plate type. For instance, the 10c Rivadavia Red Type I and Type II differ only by a few very tiny dots all next to each other.

The other two types you mention make sense to me, and I especially like the use of the term 'plate flaw.'

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Voviendo a la clasificacion de las variedades de plancha:

No he encontrado caso en el cual una variedad se repita en toda la hoja, y si esto ocurre, y solo para unas planchas y no para otras, lo que tenemos es un tipo, como es el caso del 10c Rivadavia Rojo, en el cual la diferencia en el tipo I y el tipo II son unos minusculos puntos.

A la manera en que describe los otros dos tipos le veo sentido, especialmente al uso del termino 'defecto de plancha.'

saludos

tony

[Rein]

Tony,

you are right saying it is not worthwhile calling it a 1st type characteristic as long as all stamps [of all plates we know] have the same - like that dot of the 1 peso, the dot of the U of Urquiza, the tiny scratch of the 30c and probably a few more....

Still I suggest to trace those tiny bits and register them as might indicate new plates!

Should certain plate miss those dots or scratches then we have to speak of another type like the 2 types of the 10c B. Rivadavia, the 3 types of the 20c G. Brown [there are 3 types not 2!].

An indication of a new plate is certainly to be established when we find a new set of the 2nd type characteristics as I did with the unwatemarked 1 peso. I don not think we had these set of characteristics before - unless Luis has found them already. I will read his worknow.

[Rein]

Rein,

The work you are doing on the 1pNGR-SO complements well the work Luis did from a complete sheet the 1 peso no boundaries 'Servicio Oficial' he examined in this thread:

Este trabajo sobre el 1pNGR-SO es un buen complemento a la labor de Luis basada en una hoja completa que el estudio en este hilo:

http://www.filateliaargentina.com.ar/fo ... f=43&t=740

Tony, Luis

I had a look at the sheet - that is the parts where the S.O. is - and could not find the characteristics I had shown before so as I expected it is a different plate.

I could however recognize a few characteristics in that sheet thast did repeat in every [!] odd horizontal row AND horizontally in the 5th column fartheron....

So indeed, as you mentioned somewhere earlier, the base block consists of 10 stamps = 5 next to each other and 2 above each other. The complete sheet of 10x10 was subsequently reproduced as 2 block next to each other and 5 block on top of each other..

In the case of the 30c Lanas - at least the one with the Ministerials - the procedure must have been slightly different.

[Rein]

Column 3 row 1:



Column 3 row 9:



Column 8 row 1:



Column 8 row 9:

[Rein]

Column 1 row 1:



Column 1 row 9:



Column 6 row 1:



Column 6 row 9:

[Rein]

Column 5 row 1:



Column 5 row 9:



Column 10 row 1:



Column 10 row 9:

[Rein]

The 10c Rivadavia:

The stamps without the characteristics:






The stamps with the characteristics:

[Rein]

The combination of the tiny dot underneasth the first "A" of "Argentina" and the horizontal "-" left of the 10c tablet occurs way too often. In 64 copies of the type II 10c red without "overprint" I have 21 copies with these characteristics; in my 25 copies of ministerials and S.O. I have 7!!

A subtype of this is the dot on top of the first "V" of "Rivadavia":

and taht subtype has several subsubtypes !