P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

This sub-forum is dedicated to one of the most interesting and complex definitive series in 20th Century philately: the Argentina 1935-51 Definitives

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P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor stamps9407 » 22 Sep 2011 13:53

Hello (Rein or other :) )
I've just bought a scanner and I am starting to classify my P&R I stamps. I would like to have your help.

I am following Bardi classification.

I scanned the following stamps

Imagen

I don't know why I can't see the right part of the picture just click here

let's number them in the following way r1s2 (it means row 1 stamp 2 from left to right)

Is this resolution good enough for paper classification?

- r1s4 and r2s1 are SF1
- r1s2 and r1s3 are M4

Are the above statements correct?

- It is not clear to what paper is r1s1 as it has some gum.
- r1s5 looks like different paper may be mi3?

I have a better back scan here but it is a 6MBytes file

Thank you very much for your help

Sergio
Última edición por stamps9407 el 02 Oct 2011 11:21, editado 2 veces en total
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 22 Sep 2011 15:51

Sergio,

the scan is too wide for the Foro: 1746x945 pixels whereas a width of 850 is the maximum allowed [!]

I will answer you other questions in a moment...

saludos, Rein
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 22 Sep 2011 15:57

Imagen

Wiggins Teape paper (English) with a parallel watermark (green circles) and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow)


Bardi's MI 1

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 06:42

Imagen

Wiggins Teape paper (English) with a parallel watermark (green circles) and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow)


Bardi's MI 1

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 06:46

Imagen

Wiggins Teape paper (English) with a parallel watermark (green circles) and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow)


Bardi's MI 1

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 06:58

Imagen

Zárate paper (Argentinean) with no watermark and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow)


Bardi's SF 1

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 07:06

Imagen

Wiggins Teape paper (English) with a parallel watermark (green circles) and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow) BUT with a coarse grid 24/22 lines horizontally/vertically of the paper wire - which can be seen as a much less steep blue line!


Bardi's MI 4

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 07:09

Imagen

Zárate paper (Argentinean) with no watermark and a symmetrical paper wire (blue lines) and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento] (black arrow)


Bardi's SF 1

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 07:13

stamps9407 escribiste:Hello (Rein or other :) )
I've just bought a scanner and I am starting to classify my P&R I stamps. I would like to have your help.

I am following Bardi classification.

I scanned the following stamps

--------------------


let's number them in the following way r1s2 (it means row 1 stamp 2 from left to right)

Is this resolution good enough for paper classification?

- r1s4 and r2s1 are SF1
- r1s2 and r1s3 are M4

Are the above statements correct?
-----------------

Thank you very much for your help

Sergio


Sergio,

the both no watermarks are OK, the MI 4 is your r15 only, the other three are all MI 1.

saludos, Rein
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor stamps9407 » 23 Sep 2011 09:30

Rein,
Thanks for your answer.

I would like to understand this...

with a coarse grid 24/22 lines horizontally/vertically of the paper wire - which can be seen as a much less steep blue line!


- How do you count that?
- what is that count for the MI1 paper?
- That's why the angle at 90 degrees in the MI4?

I was looking for some clear rules to identify papers, couldn't find them listed, so I would like to build my owns list (but I need to understand first)

Thanks again!!!

Regards
Sergio
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Re: P&R I 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 23 Sep 2011 10:33

stamps9407 escribiste:Rein,
Thanks for your answer.

I would like to understand this...

with a coarse grid 24/22 lines horizontally/vertically of the paper wire - which can be seen as a much less steep blue line!


- How do you count that?
- what is that count for the MI1 paper?
- That's why the angle at 90 degrees in the MI4?

I was looking for some clear rules to identify papers, couldn't find them listed, so I would like to build my owns list (but I need to understand first)

Thanks again!!!

Regards
Sergio


Sergio,

the density of 30/20 for the MI 1 and most other types of paper!

Read:

viewtopic.php?f=139&t=5008
viewtopic.php?f=139&t=5008&start=15
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2197&p=13903&hilit=density#p13903

saludos, Rein
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Re: P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 14 Ago 2013 04:39

There are - at least - 4 main paper types for the 1/2c Belgrano:

Parallel watermark, symmetric paper wire with normal, dense (30/20) wire threads:

Imagen

Parallel watermark, symmetric paper wire with coarse (24/20) wire threads - the so-called "Tela":

Imagen

Orthogonal watermark, symmetric paper wire with normal, dense (30/20) wire threads - the so-called Rayos rectos:

Imagen

No watermark, symmetric paper wire with normal, dense (30/20) wire threads:

Imagen


However, the 2008 Tabla-General refers also to a "rayado vertical" which must have been issued about 1951 - I have not seen this paper yet. A coincidental late 1/2c of 1955 is still without watermark...


Imagen

to be continued ....,
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Re: P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 14 Ago 2013 04:39

I found a few 1/2c Belgrano with splendid printing-form-position characteristics - not just one or two but even 6 among some 50 mint no-watermark stamps!

I hope someone may already know the real position in a counter sheet!

Imagen

Imagen

Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 14 Ago 2013 04:42

New plate characteristics were found in stamps without watermark:

Imagen

Imagen
Imagen


Imagen

Imagen
Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I - 1/2c Belgrano

Notapor Rein » 14 Ago 2013 04:47

biti» 31 Oct 2009 20:08 escribiste:
Hi Rein: I have a block with 30 stamps from Rows 1 to 6 and columns 1 to 5. I numbered 1 to 10 in the first row 11 to 20 the second and so on.

I`ve found some of your pics.
Position 51: with a line in the upper rigth angle
Position 32: a point in the R of Republica
Position 31: The broken A in the las A of Argentina
Position 3: a line and a broken background
Also i´ve found two broken squares in the SW angle (Pos 42 and 63) but no one has a point over the E of Belgrano

Imagen

Imagen

Regards


to be continued ....
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