The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

This sub-forum is dedicated to one of the most interesting and complex definitive series in 20th Century philately: the Argentina 1935-51 Definitives

Moderador: Rein

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 06 Sep 2011 03:17

rubiera escribiste:Rein,

Your old manroland link is broken, here is a big press as an example.

http://www.manroland.com/com/en/product ... 00-xxl.htm


Thanks Tony!

Broken links is one reason why I tend to "copy" images to my own site as much as I can....
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 31 Mar 2012 12:31

Getting back to the so-called Tizado Norteamericano we may question a few things again!

JB - the USA paper that combines both the rayado and the granulado!

It is supposed to have started in 1939 for the 5c Moreno and the 10c Rivadavia.

As with watermark type IV it should look like paper types G, JC and M! We'll see....

Apart from these 5c and 10c it should also have been used for the 1c Sarmiento and the 5c San Martin [1945]. Not forgetting the 30c Lanas, the 1p sin limites, the 2p Frutas and the 20p Cotton. The reference point for the commemoratives are the 1943 June Revolution stamps....

There are a few more stamps with this type of paper - Airmails - but the picture is clear.

The watermark is orthogonal, the paper mesh is symmetrical [!] but not with the usual density of about 30/20 but with 30/16!!!!! It could have been assigned - wrongly - a special type of Trama like the Tela [having the 24/20 density].

the 1939 5c and 10 have nothing to do with it!

to be continued ....


Imagen

Pettigiani mentions for JB:

d) Las uniones horizontales entre soles son onduladas !!

But for JC:

e) La union horizontal entre los soles es curva formado una punta hacia arriba !!!

What we see in the 5c 1943 Revolucion is exactly that!!!! It matches JC!!!

to be continued ....
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 31 Mar 2012 12:36

This is NOT a rayado...

Neither are they!

Imagen
Imagen

to be continued ...



And also here! We see the "punta hacia arriba"!!!

to be continued ....
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 31 Mar 2012 12:41

On page 51 of the Manual:

Imagen

Imagen

This is supposed to deal with the Rayado Horizontal! But the picture is of a symmetrical paper mesh!

This is a granulado!

to be continued ...



The JC as described by Pettigiani certainly shows a "punta hacia arriba"!! But it is NOT a rayado!!!!

And how about the A and Я NOT touching at the base??? ;)

to be continued...
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 31 Mar 2012 12:46

Imagen

A and Я touching !?

Imagen

All with the "hill" between the suns!

to be continued ...
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Otin » 31 Mar 2012 18:00

Rein:
I´m not so sure the 1939 tizado stam are papel tizado norteamericano. For me it started about 1943, perhaps 1942and its typical "topography" is shown in 1943 Revolution stamps. I thnk I sent you the wmk study done by Eduardo Williams concerning the various designs of suns on our early chalky papers.
On the other hand: who are JB and JC?
José
Otin
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 2031
Registrado: 16 Feb 2010 19:45

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Otin » 31 Mar 2012 18:00

Rein:
I´m not so sure the 1939 tizado stam are papel tizado norteamericano. For me it started about 1943, perhaps 1942and its typical "topography" is shown in 1943 Revolution stamps. I thnk I sent you the wmk study done by Eduardo Williams concerning the various designs of suns on our early chalky papers.
On the other hand: who are JB and JC?
José
Otin
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 2031
Registrado: 16 Feb 2010 19:45

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 31 Mar 2012 18:09

Otin escribiste:Rein:
I´m not so sure the 1939 tizado stam are papel tizado norteamericano. For me it started about 1943, perhaps 1942and its typical "topography" is shown in 1943 Revolution stamps. I thnk I sent you the wmk study done by Eduardo Williams concerning the various designs of suns on our early chalky papers.
On the other hand: who are JB and JC?
José


José,

no I do not have the Williams study!

What I am suggesting is that the 1943 watermark with a symmetrical paper wire and the 30/16 density [1943 Revolution among others] and the 1951 watermark with an asymmetrical paper wire and the 30/20 density [20c Torito] may be the same watermark!

And both are BRITISH!? No way USA!!!

saludos, Rein
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 01 Abr 2012 01:25

1943 5c Revolution:

Imagen

1951 20c Torito:

Imagen

Imagen

to be continued ...
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Otin » 09 Abr 2012 21:19

Rein,
Watermark designs could be equal but the wire meshes are completely different. And I told why by 1943 we were obligued to use USA paper.
José
Otin
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 2031
Registrado: 16 Feb 2010 19:45

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 10 Abr 2012 08:56

Otin escribiste:Rein,
Watermark designs could be equal but the wire meshes are completely different. And I told why by 1943 we were obligued to use USA paper.
José


José,

paper wires can be different and are so, but that doesn't make Tela (symmetrical) have a different dandy-roll from the 1944 Rayado Vertical (asymmetrical)!

The 1944 RV [San Juan Earthquake] came from Wiggins Teape and cannot be a left-over from before 1939! As there was no asymmetrical paper wire before 1939 - not even in England...

So I am still not convinced that Argentina could only have papers from the USA in 1943! The 1942 Rayos Rectos Difusos (symmetrical) came from Italy????

saludos, Rein
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Re: The Manual - G.A. Pettigiani - 2010

Notapor Rein » 10 Abr 2012 08:56

Otin escribiste:Rein,
Watermark designs could be equal but the wire meshes are completely different. And I told why by 1943 we were obligued to use USA paper.
José


José,

paper wires can be different and are so, but that doesn't make Tela (symmetrical) have a different dandy-roll from the 1944 Rayado Vertical (asymmetrical)!

The 1944 RV [San Juan Earthquake] came from Wiggins Teape and cannot be a left-over from before 1939! As there was no asymmetrical paper wire before 1939 - not even in England...

So I am still not convinced that Argentina could only have papers from the USA in 1943! The 1942 Rayos Rectos Difusos (symmetrical) came from Italy????

saludos, Rein
Avatar de Usuario
Rein
Usuario Colaborador
Usuario Colaborador
 
Mensajes: 6179
Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands

Anterior

Volver a Patriots and Resources I

¿Quién está conectado?

Usuarios navegando por este Foro: No hay usuarios registrados visitando el Foro y 1 invitado