P&R I 5c Moreno Brown
Moderador: Rein
P&R I 5c Moreno Brown
There are three major printing types for this time period. The first printing, for which the earliest specimen I have is dated in June 1937, is light brown and printed on the 1E1 paper.
The second type is a red medium brown, and dates from early 1938. It is printed on the 1E1 paper and shows various stages of deep plate wear, especially on the face of Moreno.
The third type looks a lot like the second, except it is printed on the CL1A paper, the first clay paper. This paper is not as thin and shiny as the CL1B paper. An early specimen, from August 1938, is shown below.
The backscans of the CL1A are opaque.
For additional specimens, please check this link:
http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... -035-1.htm
The second type is a red medium brown, and dates from early 1938. It is printed on the 1E1 paper and shows various stages of deep plate wear, especially on the face of Moreno.
The third type looks a lot like the second, except it is printed on the CL1A paper, the first clay paper. This paper is not as thin and shiny as the CL1B paper. An early specimen, from August 1938, is shown below.
The backscans of the CL1A are opaque.
For additional specimens, please check this link:
http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... -035-1.htm
sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
This is the second and last batch of these stamps up for study.
I find the 1940 printing is on the 1E4 stamp (small horizontal RA)
In 1941 the second clay paper is used, with a more yellowish tone, on CL1B paper, thinner than the CL1A used in 1938
In 1945 the CL1B is reissued on darker colors.
The printings, as I find them, are:
1. 1937, light color, 1E1
2. 1938, dark color, 1E1
3. 1939, dark color, clay, CL1A
4. 1940, dark color, 1E4
5. 1941, light color, CL1B
6. 1945, dark/semi-dark color, CL1B
I find the 1940 printing is on the 1E4 stamp (small horizontal RA)
In 1941 the second clay paper is used, with a more yellowish tone, on CL1B paper, thinner than the CL1A used in 1938
In 1945 the CL1B is reissued on darker colors.
The printings, as I find them, are:
1. 1937, light color, 1E1
2. 1938, dark color, 1E1
3. 1939, dark color, clay, CL1A
4. 1940, dark color, 1E4
5. 1941, light color, CL1B
6. 1945, dark/semi-dark color, CL1B
sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
The Argentinean philatelists that started to collect the newly introduced definitives set with the Próceres had to be alert!
The 10c Rivadavia in red was modified in a few months. After the introduction of 01.10.1935 the new 10c arrived on 17.12.1935 with a minute difference! At least that is how it is still presented and what can make us wonder why collectors should have bothered in the first place!!?
The 5c took a little longer! On 19.03.1937 the 5c got printed on the same reel-fed typography press {Goebel] as had got the 10c red. Why???
This reel-fed press had been introduced in 1930 in order to be able to prepare coil stamps. Stamps to be sold from coin operated dispensers [automatic vending machines]. Vending machines all over the world had been using coils made up by hand pasting strips of 10 or 20 together, but due to the paper joint the dispenser did not work always appropiately and the coils got stuck. The only way to improve that was using "endless" coils with no joints and these coils needed reel-fed presses to produce them!
That way the 1931 José de San Martin stamps got printed.
The Goebel press had also been used to print sheets for the Ministerials, but what could have been the advantage above the traditional sheet-fed method??? The more as the Ministerial text itself had to be applied on a sheet-fed machine???
Speed? Anyway the 5c Moreno in typography appeared on the scene and nobody noticed then that the design was different fromt hat of the 5c in offset-litho [since 01.10.1935].
to be continued ...
The 10c Rivadavia in red was modified in a few months. After the introduction of 01.10.1935 the new 10c arrived on 17.12.1935 with a minute difference! At least that is how it is still presented and what can make us wonder why collectors should have bothered in the first place!!?
The 5c took a little longer! On 19.03.1937 the 5c got printed on the same reel-fed typography press {Goebel] as had got the 10c red. Why???
This reel-fed press had been introduced in 1930 in order to be able to prepare coil stamps. Stamps to be sold from coin operated dispensers [automatic vending machines]. Vending machines all over the world had been using coils made up by hand pasting strips of 10 or 20 together, but due to the paper joint the dispenser did not work always appropiately and the coils got stuck. The only way to improve that was using "endless" coils with no joints and these coils needed reel-fed presses to produce them!
That way the 1931 José de San Martin stamps got printed.
The Goebel press had also been used to print sheets for the Ministerials, but what could have been the advantage above the traditional sheet-fed method??? The more as the Ministerial text itself had to be applied on a sheet-fed machine???
Speed? Anyway the 5c Moreno in typography appeared on the scene and nobody noticed then that the design was different fromt hat of the 5c in offset-litho [since 01.10.1935].
to be continued ...
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
The 5c Mariano Moreno in offset-litho clearly has got his forehead wiped off!
It does have a parallel watermark, a symmetrical paper wire and a vertical direction of paper that is parallel with the long side of the stamp "M":
The first printing with the Ministerials and the Servicio Oficial has the same paramaters:
to be continued ....
It does have a parallel watermark, a symmetrical paper wire and a vertical direction of paper that is parallel with the long side of the stamp "M":
The first printing with the Ministerials and the Servicio Oficial has the same paramaters:
to be continued ....
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
The typographed 5c Moreno of 19.03.1937 also had its forehead wiped off:
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
all with ascending watermark!
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
all with ascending watermark!
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
all ascending!
to be continued ...
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
The 5c Moreno in offset-litho would have the empty forehead forever!
The 5c Moreno in typography would soon have it forehead filled up with dots!
to be continued ....
The 5c Moreno in typography would soon have it forehead filled up with dots!
to be continued ....
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
But how soon???
The 5c Mariano Moreno in typography was issued on 19.03.1937 and printed on normal, uncoated paper; see Leopoldo Tenorio Casal:
Still in the same year the 2nd type had been used with the pointed forehead:
The 5c Mariano Moreno in typography was issued on 19.03.1937 and printed on normal, uncoated paper; see Leopoldo Tenorio Casal:
typography with empty forehead - la tipografía con la frente vacía:5c
Tercero y ultima valor de fotograbado estereotipado, por su uso, es el que más variedades tiene, se inicío el 19 de marzo de 1937, sobre papel común filigranado Sol R.A. 9 1/2 mm. de diámetro, distancia de los soles entre si 29,5 x 17,75, posicíon de filigrana horizontal, lo que debe tenerse en cuenta para su independizacíon, hay doce impresíones.
Still in the same year the 2nd type had been used with the pointed forehead:
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
rubiera » 06 Jul 2008 19:35 escribió:
Encuentro tres impresiones durante estos años. La primera impresion es sobre castaño claro y sobre el papel 1E1. Este es uno de los mas antiguos que tengo, de Junio de 1937.
Tony Rubiera turns out to have an even older date stamp!
It is rather strange that Leopoldo Tenorio Casal did not mention the 2nd type of the 5c Moreno in typography at all! When he wrote his article in 1947 he must have had enough time to study the 5c stamps!
This stamp somehow did not even reach the Bermuda Triangle?
to be continued ....
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
While the 5c offset-litho was to be reprinted only a few times, the 5c in typography was to have prinitngs on coated paper. Tenorio Casal mentioned 05.04.1939 as the first date of printing for the coated papers of the first production....
However, reading Tony Rubiera:
However, reading Tony Rubiera:
rubiera » 06 Jul 2008 19:35 escribió:
El segundo tipo es en castaño rojizo, y parece haber sido emitio a principios de 1938. Este tambien esta impreso sobre el papel 1E1. Este sello muestra mucho desgaste en la plancha, especialmente en la cara de Moreno.
El tercer tipo es facilmente confundido con el segundo. Aunque tiene el mismo color, el papel es el primero de los tizados, el CL1A, que no tiene tanto brillo y no es tan fino como el tizado CL1B. Tengo varios fechados en Agosto de 1938.
La filigrana Cl1A es opaca:
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
Getting back to the offset-litho printings. Referring to the offset-litho printings it should be noticed that they were only bicoloured Servicio Oficial printings! They do no longer have a parallel watermark but an orthogonal watermark, however still a symmetrical paper wire:
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":
The direction of paper parallel to the short side of the stamp "m":
None of them are mentioned in the catalogue on the PyR I Dario Bardi had published in December 2009!
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":
The direction of paper parallel to the short side of the stamp "m":
None of them are mentioned in the catalogue on the PyR I Dario Bardi had published in December 2009!
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
With a parallel watermark, a symmetrical paper wire, density 24/20 - "Tela"
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":
- Rein
- Usuario Colaborador
- Mensajes: 6258
- Registrado: 13 Mar 2009 15:59
- Ubicación: Leiden, Netherlands
- Contactar:
Re: P&R I 5c Rivadavia Brown
No watermark:
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":
The direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":