P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

This sub-forum is dedicated to one of the most interesting and complex definitive series in 20th Century philately: the Argentina 1935-51 Definitives

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P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 20 Jun 2010 08:41

There are a good number of plate varieties for the late printings (the 1L's), all easy to spot. Here I have a page for these:

http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... rs-2P.html

There are two types of long scratches ver the melon, and for each I find many.

The two I find the most of, and I think are found on the plate on more than one position are:

Small diagonal scratch between the two outer lines midway across the bottom:

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Large dot on the lower outer edge of the central design, midway

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Interestingly, my favorite variety for the this stamp is a printing, and not a plate variety, and it is the doubled center variety, which, to my surprise, is NOT a very rare stamp.

http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... umble.html

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There is also a remarkable plate variety on the unwatermarked grid stamp, the 2pNGR, which I luckily also have on cover!

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 20 Jun 2010 18:28

Here are a few minor plate varieties. I find the ones with small scratches outside the design to be most interesting and would like to find out if these repeat.

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 20 Jun 2010 18:29

I have previously found these plate varieties on the 5P1L printings from the 1950s. Finding them on the 1949 2P2C seems to indicate that the same plate was used for the 2P2C and 2P1L issues.

'dot middle top of center plate'

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'diagonal scratch mid-lower edge'

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 20 Jun 2010 18:29

I would like to find out if this variety repeats.

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 20 Jun 2010 18:29

I find two variations of this plate variety.The first one only has two scratches on the frame plate lower right corner.

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The second variant has two additional plate flaws.

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 13 Nov 2010 11:50

A 1pL/2p1E1 cover

These cover combinations are a sure source of the rare 2p1E1.

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 13 Nov 2010 11:50

The 2p1E2

This stamp is the rarest of the 1E2 range. The 5p1E2 is unknown, and if it is ever found, it will be even rarer. The dark colors make separating this stamp from the 1E1/1E3 somewhat difficult.

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sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 13 Nov 2010 13:47

For what it is worth!

My statistics as far as used stamps with Austriaco that I have - not counting the ministerials:

25c 34/1
30c 20
40c 22
50c 6/0
1p 58
2p 9
10p 4
20p 1

behind the "/" the "M" versions; all others are "m" [i.e.the direction of paper runs parallel to the short side of the stamp].
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 13 Nov 2010 17:10

Rein,

One of my guesses is that the selection available in Europe (where I assume you bought these stamps) is a better one for these stamps than the one available when buying from Argentina. I have found that the 1p stamps are not common in selections I have bought from Argentina, yet almost every cover out of the country to North America or Europe bears one and sometimes more....

tony
sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 01 Ene 2011 10:43

rubiera escribiste:The 2pCL1B of 1943 is the scarcest stamp of the entire issue. I just came across this stamp. Several features of this stamp are give-aways: the stamp is postmarked 1944 (and 1943/44 are the correct years only), the paper is bright white, the watermark is perpendicular, and the ink shows some splatter.

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Here is a comparison 1E1/3.

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The watermark is barely visible, as it should be. The RA is perpendicular to the 1E1/1E3, as it should be.

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Tony,

the watermark should be somewhat visbile but what is more important are the virtual horizontal lines - 16 per cm - perpendicular tot the direction of paper:

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Compare it with the 1943 issue:

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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor rubiera » 01 Ene 2011 19:50

Nice,

I see clearly what you meant about me calling the wrong paper the one used on the first 2 pesos.

thanks

tony
sitio Ingles/Español de P y R I
http://www.somestamps.com/arg3551/index.htm
sitio general:
http://www.somestamps.com/
blog de P y R I en Ingles
http://arg3551.blogspot.com/
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 02 Ene 2011 21:47

rubiera escribiste:Nice,

I see clearly what you meant about me calling the wrong paper the one used on the first 2 pesos.

thanks

tony



Tony,

this type of paper had been used for the coated offset-litho stamps in 1943, whether the coated paper for typography is exactly the same make is a bit questionable! Anyway the typographed stamps [1c Sarmiento , 5c Moreno, 10c Rivadavia, 5c JSM] have concurrent types of coated paper (except for the 1c Sarmiento) which makes it often hard to distinguish!

The 20p with coating - 1943 - has a not so obvious coating, at least when used, and the watermark is an orthogonal one with a symmetrical paper wire! Best compared with the 1943 July Revolution stamps!

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The density is 30/16 - the 16 horizontal lines per cm should result in about 16x3.75 = 60! A quick rough count for this stamp comes to 61! All the other paper wires - except for the "Tela" - would give 20x3.75 = 75! Which is a lot more!
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 26 Jun 2011 04:46

rubiera escribiste:I have previously found these plate varieties on the 5P1L printings from the 1950s. Finding them on the 1949 2P2C seems to indicate that the same plate was used for the 2P2C and 2P1L issues.

'dot middle top of center plate'

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'diagonal scratch mid-lower edge'

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Tony,

the post-1948 2 pesos stamps have 6 base block [2x5] varieties that got repeated over and over again! The no watermarks had their own plates, but after that there was only ONE plate as far as I know.

The "FRUTI" and "A_A" are just two of them. They are on the Rayos Rectos Nitidos (RR2), the Rayado Vertical and the Rayado Horizontal, the Tizado Delgado and all the Zárate versions...

Rein
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 26 Jun 2011 09:01

You will find probably more 2 pesos stamps with a vibration of the blue colour than a "normal" one!

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But, the brown colour in vibration can not be found in great numbers!

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to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 2 pesos Fruits

Notapor Rein » 26 Jun 2011 09:03

But, the brown colour in vibration can not be found in great numbers!

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to be continued ...
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