P&R I Departmental Officials

[Rein]

The 50c Petroleo with Ministerials I have are all Tela [1E3c/MI4] or the 24/20 density of a symmetrical paper mesh in combination with a parallel watermark. This type of paper was first noticed in February 1941!

[Rein]

These fake "overprints" for the PyR I Ministerials have too much in common to be incidentally manufactured fakes. Made in the 1950-ies? The 1c has a year of 1953!

Any publication in the philatelic literature of that period????

rc2441

[Rein]

These are great finds. I wonder why anyone would bother with a stamp dated 1953?

I have been looking at my selection and all I have look genuine. I wonder if these are from a European faker? I see the point of faking the faboluously rare 50c ones, but the others? I don't get it.

tony

Tony,

the Ministerials on the PyR I get prices in the GJ'09 ranging from 0.20-0.30 - practically all of them - at least the centavos values - so there is no need to fake them on the basis of the catalogue "value"; the problem may be the real scarcity that forces fakers to supply missing items .....

Why are the prices in M.T. or G.J. so unrealistic???

[Rein]

People, please be careful about this. Absolutely no stamp in this set is "fabulously rare"!

Most stamps in this set are very common, and they deserve the minimum price in the catalog. There are, of course, a few scarce items, among them there is probably a single type that I would qualify as rare (but certainly not a rarity, and it is not any 50c stamp). Possibly some of these are a bit underpriced. But there are probably more over-priced ones. Especially in GJ that it seems that automatically, and wrongly, assumes that all 15c, 20c JMG, 1 Peso with limits, and 10c Type I, are rare.

Jorge,

why be careful about it??? The catalogue makers have the monopoly of setting prices and with hardly any market, the prices remain at that level...

What is the value of a catalogue price??? I prefer to see higher prices so people jump out to sell their copies only to find out that there are enough of them on this small market!?

It is a pity that Dario Bardi has not dealt with the ministerials nor the servicio oficial. But also some of his regulars are underestimated. If they exist at all! Show me a 1/2c Belgrano on rayado vertical? For $1.-???? I am gladly willing to pay $5.- per copy; $25.- for a block of 4.... A 1c Sarmiento on granulado vertical [m] for $500 ???? Anyone who can vouch for it???

[Rein]

These are great finds. I wonder why anyone would bother with a stamp dated 1953?

I said it many times. Forgeries don't follow common sense. It is naive to believe, and will misguide you if you do, that only rare and expensive items are forged.

I have all sort of forgeries. And I would say that I have more forgeries of common items, than rare ones. I have lots of forgeries of extremely common types. I have forgeries of stamps that are much rarer and much more expensive without the overprint. I have forgeries that are so badly done, that nobody could be fooled, and you come to think that the forger never saw the original. Forgers do not follow common sense. Certainly not when talking about these overprints, which are far easier to make than a complete stamp forgery.

Jorge,

I prefer to have as little fakes as possible in my collection. And when I come across them I want to know how to recgonize them and find out about their origin... Overprints have always been the favourite pass time of forgerers, so I usually keep miles away from them...

Answering my question?! Have you come across the type of fakes I was displaying???

[Rein]

Jorge, Rein:

The key point here is that these stamps mint were not sold to collectors. Someone had to steal them....right? Or maybe the post office sold the remainders to dealers? In my opinion, the ones that served postal use are guaranteed to have been 'real stamps.' The regulars are another story. A mint 20p regular 1E1 (Ingles, 1936) cost someone a very dear 20 pesos in 1936, and that was serious money back then. And the regulars were sold to collectors but at full face value, not by the pound.

About rarity:

The 10cR I, 50c, and 1p (limits, without limits) I find to be rare mint.

These used are also very rare.....I am serious, I still only have one lousy 10c MG type I in very poor quality, and am missing the 3c M..M and the 1p MRC with limits, as well as 1 p MM without limits on 1E1 (Ingles, 1936) and 1E2 (Austriaco, 1937) , and almost all the others on 1E1 (Ingles, 1936).

If anyone has these, let me know....I need them.

Jorge:

paqueteria: packets

saludos

tony

Tony,

how come I have quite a lot of mint copies in blocks or partial sheets??? Let us assume the Post Office sold them to the highest bidder i.e. the stamp dealers. Does seem to make sense to me!

Mint copies of the regulars have been paid for in hard cash as Tony suggests. During World War II in the Netherlands paper money wasn't worth a thing, people sought refuge in stamps. The Post Office did reprint several otherwise unnecessary stamps like Airmails [no airmail allowed under German occupation!] just to make philatelists happy! How was the situation in Argentina then???

[rubiera]

Here is a crude, yet interesting forgery. The original stamp (the 10cR MM Type I) is rare, but the MG is considerably scarcer. I guess the forger did not know relative rarity well.

[zakur]

That M.M. seems typewrtten!!!

[Rein]

That M.M. seems typewrtten!!!

Pablo,

you are probably quite right!

[rubiera]

and the forger didn't know that MG is many more times scarcer!
tony

[rubiera]

The 10c-I-MG DEPOF and a handful of Type I MMs

I have finally acquired a copy of the extremely rare 10c MG Type I. This stamp is not in the best condition, but it is an acceptable copy of what seems to me is the rarest departmental, and perhaps one of the rarest of the entire series.



I also just received a few MMs





...an M..M single



...and an M..M in a pair

[rubiera]

The 1p1E2-MM and the 1pL-MRC

With these stamps I have attained type completion of the departmental officials, and perhaps even issue completion....I need to check the 1E2 30c stamps, I may be missing one.

Here are mint and used examples of the 1pL-MRC





Here is the 1p1E2-MM

[Rein]

Tony,


I had not realized that the 10c type I with M.G. was so scarce! It is one of my manco's

[rubiera]

Yeah, I know....used is how it counts, mint ones are remainders. I wish we could do a census of these stamps. I think we would find some to be world rarities, especially on cover.

tony

[jorgec]

I have finally acquired a copy of the extremely rare 10c MG Type I. This stamp is not in the best condition, but it is an acceptable copy of what seems to me is the rarest departmental, and perhaps one of the rarest of the entire series.

Beg to digger, but I disagree. This stamp is rare in mint condition, probably the rarest major type in this set. It is still scarce in used condition, bot not nearly that rare (you know I have more than one cover). And it is not even the rarest used type in this set. I realize this was the last stamp that you were missing, but it is because of the combined used+mint rarity. The other stamps that are scarcer in used condition, are not that rare mint (so you had them mint long ago).

Regardless, this set as a whole is not at all too rare in comparison to other departmentals (the earlier ones).

Tony, with all due respect, you are an expert in several aspects of the whole P&R I. I have an enormous respect for your work, and I can't thank you enough for the contribution you are making. But I don't think that you are qualified, or have any authority, to judge rarity.

Of course that you have a rough idea of what is scarce and what is common. But how in earth could you know what is rare, what is very rare, and what is a top rarity. This require years of being on the market, watching auctions, examining dealers' stocks and specialized collections, etc.

Again, please take it as a small critic from one of your top fans.