P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

This sub-forum is dedicated to one of the most interesting and complex definitive series in 20th Century philately: the Argentina 1935-51 Definitives

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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 12 Nov 2011 10:53

The bottom left part of a sheet of 10x10 of the 10c Rivadavia red type II reel-fed printing on the Goebel press.

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Dot right of the "A" below both in row 9 and in row 10!

to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 12 Nov 2011 10:56

The bottom left part of a sheet of 10x10 of the 10c Rivadavia red type II reel-fed printing on the Goebel press.

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Imagen

Scratch above value tablet both in row 9 and in row 10 - in column 4!

to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 20 Ene 2012 07:16

CastañoOcre » 30 Dec 2011 15:28 escribiste:
Estimados...

Llevó tiempo pero al fin terminé la primera parte del estudio de esta emisión en impresiones rotativas.
Hay mucho camino por andar. Pero este puntapié nos va a permitir entender más y mejor la emisión de 10c marrón también.
Espero que disfruten su lectura como yo disfruté haciendo este trabajito.... !!!
Lamentablemente las condiciones del foro no me permiten subir imágenes con mejor resolución .

¡¡Feliz año para todos !!

Guillermo

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The complicated issue of the 10c red in reel-fed typography has almost reached it apogeum! Guillermo has found the solution for all the different plates in the use of 4 blocks of 5x1 to make up a whole printing sheet!

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 20 Ene 2012 07:19

CastañoOcre » 30 Dec 2011 15:29 escribiste:

Imagen
Hoja nro. 2

Para mayor resolución Ver: http://filateliadigital.blogspot.com/20 ... esion.html


to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 20 Ene 2012 07:19

CastañoOcre» 30 Dec 2011 15:30 escribiste:

Imagen
Hoja nro. 3

Para mayor resolución Ver: http://filateliadigital.blogspot.com/20 ... esion.html



to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 20 Ene 2012 07:20

CastañoOcre» 30 Dec 2011 15:30 escribiste:

Imagen
Hoja nro. 4
Para mayor resolución Ver: http://filateliadigital.blogspot.com/20 ... esion.html



to be continued ...
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 20 Ene 2012 07:21

CastañoOcre» 30 Dec 2011 15:31 escribiste:


El artículo completo y el resto de las hojas, nro 5 a nro 12 se pueden ver aquí con mejor resolución:
http://filateliadigital.blogspot.com/20 ... esion.html



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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 14 Feb 2013 16:17

After more than a year let's make a recall:

type I - sheet-fed 10c red
type II - sheet-fed 10c red
type III - reel-fed 10c red
type IV - reel-fed 10c red; 10c chestnut-brown - dot above the first "N" of Bernardino
type V - reel-fed 10c red; 10c chestnut-brown - horizontal scratch above the third "A "of Rivadavia
type VI - reel-fed 10c chestnut-brown - L-shaped appendix in front of the "B"

Type IV and type V are both distributed over the same cylinder - as Guillermo had showed us.

And possibly there is a still different version of type II in September 1938! The only sheet-fed version to exist with S.O. too!

Type I - 01.10.1935
Type II - 17.12.1935
Type III - 01.06.1936
Type IV - July/Sept? 1936
Type V - July/Sept? 1936
Type VI - 1944?

to be continued ....
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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 19 Feb 2013 15:32

Type III only occurs with ascending AЯ! Notwithstanding the fact Bardi takes it for granted that both orientations are equally present!

In type III - reel-fed printing - we hardly find any plate/cylinder characteristics!

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Imagen
Imagen

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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 19 Feb 2013 15:36

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Imagen
Imagen


Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 19 Feb 2013 15:38

Imagen
Imagen
Imagen

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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor Rein » 14 Dic 2016 07:49

Subject: Todo sobre el 10c Rivadavia Rojo P y R I

educ escribiste:http://foro.filateliaargentina.org/download/10cvRojo.zip
ahora si creo que esta bien.
Eduardo



A great story by Eduardo L. A. Cappa, BUT not really having read all what has been written in this Foro so far!

Simply dismissing what I discovered years ago and published here and what Educ calls TIPO II-RII ....

Apart from describing the various grupos-raíz there is no mention about the distinctions in comb perforations! The comb for the sheet-fed stamps moved horizontally, the comb for the reel-fed stamps moved vertically, which can be seen from the extra narrow/broad teeth at the left/right hand or top/bottom end of the stamps...

And there is ONE more sheet-fed printing to be found i.e. that of September 1938:

The Rivadavia that vanished into thin air
Post by Rein » 04 Apr 2010 12:22

The 10c Rivadavia has been terribly neglected in the Argentinean catalogues. Not only the offset-litho version but also the typography version. The base stamps are so common that nobody had really bothered too much ....

Let us start with the 10c in typography!

The red coloured version is supposed to have 3 versions if we are to believe the catalogues - and by now you should know that I do not believe things that easily!

Relying a lot on the article made by Leopoldo Tenorio Casal (Nr 40 Revista del Centro Filatélico de la Plata - 1947) we should make a distinction between the sheet-fed and the reel-fed versions!

10c red:

01.10.1935 sheet-fed, 1st plate [only 1 printing]; the stamp measuring 24.0x30.5mm, the design 21.0x27.0mm. Known as tipo I with comb perforation 13.333:13.147 [13 1/2:13 in M.T.].
17.12.1935 sheet-fed, 2nd plate [2 printings]; the stamp measuring 24.0x30.5mm, the design 20.6x26.7mm. Known as tipo II with comb perforation 13.333:13.147 [13 1/2:13 in M.T.]
01.06.1936 reel-fed, 11 printings; the stamp measuring 24.0x30.0mm, the design 20.0x26.5mm. Known as tipo II with comb perforation 13.333:13.333 [13 1/2 in M.T.]
x.09.1938 sheet-fed, 3rd plate [2 printings]; no further details but for the fact that according to Tenorio Casal the word "Bernardino" is back to the length of the 1st plate....

The latter fact should mean that we have at least 4 different 10c red! At least, as we do NOT know how different are the subsequent printings and we know already that for the 5c Moreno the 19.03.1937 reel-fed printings (13 in total) had 2 major design types!!!

Although the catalogues mention the differences in perforation, none does mention the differences in sizes [both design and stamp height! ]

to be continued .....


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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red

Notapor CastañoOcre » 14 Dic 2016 10:45

Rein

Hello! I think that Educ did a quick review, but not complete, of most common issues. A kind of compilation.
In general terms, that's good for philately. But unfortunately, as I can see, he acquired studies and approaches from other people and modified them to fit his article. However his main target was a further study on the "cilindros" used for reel-fed printings. I know that. But he also tried to include more information. Be patient. Please read also my comments in the spanish foro: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=2230&p=117057#p117057
Perhaps he can do a second edition of his article!
Regards
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