Mailander printings next to the 1968 Goebel!

[Rein]

Girasol Verde 1c: Artículo RFA Nº229 por Maizel - Williams.

En el día de ayer el Dr. Guillermo Pettigiani, como presidente de la Sociedad Filatélica de la República Argentina, ha tenido la gentileza de autorizar la publicación en nuestro Foro el artículo "Nuevas Versiones Del Sello girasol Verde 1c" de autoría de Alberto Maizel (nuestro usuario alberto340) y Eduardo Williams, gracias a gestiones de Alberto (coautor del trabajo).
La versión papel del artículo podrán encontrarla en las páginas 21 a 25 de la última Revista Filatélica Argentina (Nº 229) que publica SOFIRA, con quienes rogamos ponerse en contacto a los interesados en suscribirse a esta prestigiosa publicación.

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RFA Nº 229 (enero 2011), publicada por SOFIRA.


Agradecemos profundamente la voluntad del coautor y la presidencia de SOFIRA en favorecer la difusión de estos trabajos, que no pueden tener otra consecuencia que el mayor conocimiento y la detección de nuevas variedades no clasificadas y/o la confirmación de las recientemente encontradas.







Cordiales saludos,
Néstor.

"La Filatelia comienza donde termina el catálogo".

A great article but a few things ought to have been had the authors read the Foro! And even in the 2009 edition....

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to be continued ....

[Rein]

Having a major article in a national magazine that got a new issue for the first time in two years, the authors could have written a small introduction about the stamp they were going to deal with PLUS some elementary information about the methods of printing used and the material concerned....

Why not a word about the two different printing presses - Goebel or Mailander and the details that go with it??? At least our Nestor of Argentinean Philately José Merlo would have told them about the presses had he been asked...

The reel-fed photogravure printing press Goebel had been in use since late 1968 and the in-line perforation comb had a stroke length of 39.0mm. That is why several of the P&R II/III stamps in photogravure had a larger stamp size suddenly!

The offset-litho stamps still had the old size of 37.5mm height [and a width of 26.5mm].

It should always be expected that for the different printing methods - typography, offset-litho, recess and photogravure - different types of paper might have been used!

When was the 1c Girasol issued????

The GJ'10 Catalogue list all the 1c versions under the 1970-1973 period!

Juan Holler is more precise: the no watermark 17-6-71; watermark CdM verde oscuro [dark green] 22-5-72; and the watermark CdM verde claro [bright green] 26-7-75 (filigr.bien visible)! The previous Sunflower 1 peso pardo [brown] was issued in 1970 on paper with no watermark.

The parallel chronology and history of the 1p Bariloche shall be dealt with by me later on!

to be continued ....

GOOGLE

Tener un importante artículo en una revista nacional que tiene una nueva emisión por la primera vez en dos años, los autores podrían haber escrito una pequeña introducción sobre lo sello de que se va a tratar con más alguna información básica sobre los métodos de impresión utilizados y la material en cuestión ....

¿Por qué ni una palabra sobre las dos imprentas diferentes - Goebel o Mailander y los detalles que van con él?? Por lo menos nuestra Néstor de Argentina Filatelia José Merlo les habría dicho acerca de las prensas había sido pedido ...

La imprenta huecograbado Goebel alimentada con bobinas había estado en uso desde finales de 1968 y el peine de la perforación en línea tenía una longitud de 39.0mm. Es por eso que varios de los sellos P&R II/III en huecograbado tenía un tamaño de sello más grande!

Los sellos en offset-litografía todavía tenía el tamaño anterior de la altura de 37,5 mm [y un ancho de 26.5mm].

Siempre se debe esperar que los métodos de impresión diferentes - tipografía, offset-litografía, huecograbado y el calcograbado - diferentes tipos de papel podría haber sido utilizado!

¿Cuándo fue la Girasol 1c emitido??

Lo catálogo GJ'10 tiene todas las versiones 1c en el período 1970-1973!

Juan Holler es más preciso: la sin filigrana 17-6-71; filigrana CdM verde oscuro [verde oscuro] 22-5-72, y la filigran CdM Verde Claro [verde claro] 26-7-75 (filigr.bien visible)! El 1 peso girasol pardo emitido anterior en 1970 tiene el papel sin marca de agua.

La cronología y historia paralela del 1p Bariloche será tratado por mí más tarde!

Continuará ...

[Rein]

In their article Williams and Maizel describe the discovery of the particular type of paper that was manufactured during May-October 1969!



Apart from the Casa de Moneda watermark the major feature of this paper was the fact that both the front and the back react under the UV-lamp as if Optical Brightening Agents had been added! To the pulp or to the pulp AND coating????



The Commemoratives mentioned (May 1969-August 1969) all had been in offset-litho and so had the Airmails! Only the 2 definitives were in photogravure! J. Holler mentions 5-68 for the 5p and 6-69 for the 100p with a CdM watermark but he must have made a mistake as to 1968 Or not! As the 5p has a width of 37.5mm as as such was printed on the sheet-fed Mailander!

All this so far suggests that the batches of paper the authors describe were meant for sheet-fed printing EITHER in offset-litho OR in photogravure....

to be continued ....

[Rein]

The question of a line perforation used is to be discussed! I still tend to think that a comb perforation had been used as I have written before!



to be continued .....

[Rein]

Of the 5 versions mentioned here only 1) and 5) seem to have a comb perforation as the authors state! Both are on F/N! That is the OBA is ONLY in the coating! Not in the pulp! The CdM at the back in fluorescence is indeed spectacular!!!! How could it have been applied????

Why in 2) having TWO orientations of the watermark CdM in ONE version for the F/N while the orientation does demand two versions: 3) and 4) for the F/F????? Rather inconsequently.......

This emphasizes the overemphasis the authors place on their F/F fluorescence cult!

to be continued .....

[Rein]

The question of a line perforation used is to be discussed! I still tend to think that a comb perforation had been used as I have written before!



to be continued .....

No coincendente!!! Indeed the corner hole is not regular! But that does not mean we have a line perforation at hand!!!





The ink is flowing to the left as could be expected for the printing on the Mailander, the direction of paper is horizontal! For a Goebel printng the direction of printing is B [flowingt to the top] and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento vertical].... You can see trhe doctor's blade (racleta)! In both corners!




The left bottom corner has 3 (three) "teeth"! The curve in the middle can NOT have been produced by a line perforation!!!!! The possible solution is a comb moving from left to right having more perforation holes in its side-lines than necessary! This can be proven by the examples of the 1p Bariloche in brown that are much wider than would be expected!

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1556&p=10646&hilit ... che#p10646

In that article I had already pointed out to the peculiar comb size!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

No coincendente!!! Indeed the corner hole is not regular! But that does not mean we have a line perforation at hand!!!





The ink is flowing to the left as could be expected for the printing on the Mailander, the direction of paper is horizontal! For a Goebel printng the direction of printing is B [flowing to the top] and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento vertical]....




The right bottom corner has 3 (three) "teeth"! The curve in the middle can NOT have been produced by a line perforation!!!!! The possible solution is a comb moving from right to left having more perforation holes in its side-lines than necessary!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

No coincendente!!! Indeed the corner hole is not regular! But that does not mean we have a line perforation at hand!!!





The ink is flowing to the left as could be expected for the printing on the Mailander, the direction of paper is horizontal! For a Goebel printng the direction of printing is B [flowing to the top] and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento vertical]....



This again can NOT be a line perforation! A stroke from the right had made a few extra holes!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

Coincendente!!! Indeed the corner hole is egular! But that does not mean we have a comb perforation at hand!!! Or does it???




The ink is flowing to the left as could be expected for the printing on the Mailander, the direction of paper is horizontal! For a Goebel printng the direction of printing is B [flowing to the top] and a vertical direction of paper [eje de enrollamiento vertical]....



The direction of printing and the racleta show that we have a Mailander at hand! Not a Goebel!!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

Of the 5 versions mentioned here only 1) and 5) seem to have a comb perforation as the authors state! Both are on F/N! That is the OBA is ONLY in the coating! Not in the pulp! The CdM at the back in fluorescence is indeed spectacular!!!! How could it have been applied????

The stamps described here with the fluorescent watermark is a peculiar type! But you have to bear in mind that all the other CdM watermarks in the F/N situation ALSO had some part of the OBA [optical brightening agents] applied to the coating LEAKING through the thinner spots of the watermark!!!!!!

This is in a rather extreme case of the 1c Girasol with a watermark CdM and the AЯ parallel to the small side of the stamp PLUS the direction of paper vertical PLUS the stamps printed on the Mailander PLUS the paper having RED and BLUE fibers in it!!!! This version of the 1c Girasol indeed had a fluorescent watermark seen from the back in ALL mint copies I have......

What makes it different from the story Williams and Maizel tell is that the comb perforation can leave both coinciding holes AND not coinciding holes!!!!!

Which gives us yet another - 4th - NO CATALOGADO

And our Authors have not even noticed the coloured fibers !!

to be continued ....

GOOGLE

Los sellos se describe aquí con la marca de agua fluorescente es un tipo peculiar! Pero hay que tener en cuenta que todas las marcas de agua otros CdM en la situación de F/N también tenía una parte de la OBA [agentes abrillantador óptico] se aplica a la capa escapa a través de los puntos más delgada de la marca de agua !!!!!!

Este es un caso extremo del 1c Girasol con una marca de agua del CdM y el AЯ paralelo a lado pequeño del sello PLUS la dirección de papel vertical PLUS los sellos impresos en la Mailander PLUS el papel con fibras rojas y azules en ella! ! Esta versión del 1c Girasol de hecho había una marca de agua fluorescentes visto desde la parte de atrás en todas las copias de menta que tengo ......

Lo que lo hace diferente de la historia de Williams y Maizel decir es que la perforación peine puede dejar tanto coincidentes los agujeros y no coincidentes los agujeros !!!!!

Lo que nos da otra - 4 - NO CATALOGADO

Y nuestros autores ni siquiera han notado que las fibras de colores!

debe continuar ....

[Otin]

Rein,
I`ve to find the journal where I published that that and other stamps have coloured fibers. To be sincere, I SAW Meitzel and Williams article by actuallu oversee it. Will read it profoundly,
José

[Rein]

The stamps described here with the fluorescent watermark is a peculiar type! But you have to bear in mind that all the other CdM watermarks in the F/N situation ALSO had some part of the OBA [optical brightening agents] applied to the coating LEAKING through the thinner spots of the watermark!!!!!!

This is in a rather extreme case of the 1c Girasol with a watermark CdM and the AЯ parallel to the small side of the stamp PLUS the direction of paper vertical PLUS the stamps printed on the Mailander PLUS the paper having RED and BLUE fibers in it!!!! This version of the 1c Girasol indeed had a fluorescent watermark seen from the back in ALL mint copies I have......

It takes some time to get a proper picture using both a digital camera and a UV-lamp, realizing that the UV-lamp gives a more intense image when closer to the object!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

It takes some time to get a proper picture using both a digital camera and a UV-lamp, realizing that the UV-lamp gives a more intense image when closer to the object!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

It takes some time to get a proper picture using both a digital camera and a UV-lamp, realizing that the UV-lamp gives a more intense image when closer to the object!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

It takes some time to get a proper picture using both a digital camera and a UV-lamp, realizing that the UV-lamp gives a more intense image when closer to the object!



to be continued ....